Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  88

  British Sociologist Predicts Possible Collapse in Jehovah's Witness Numbers

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a newly published article by british sociologist david voas argues jehovah's witnesses may be about to experience a collapse in numbers.

  contrary to claims by american sociologist rodney stark who predicts strong future growth for jehovah's witnesses, voas shows that jehovah's witnesses' efforts at recruiting new members have become increasingly unsuccessful over the past few decades: the rate of increase has steadily declined, and the number of hours each publisher must preach to produce an extra convert has gone up substantially.

  voas suggests a reason for the stagnation may be that there is a natural limit to the number of people in a given population that are susceptible to conversion to sectarian groups like jehovah's witnesses - the 'carrying capacity' of the population, and that the limit has largely been reached.

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  Doubting Bro

  Very interesting article. I tend to think that stagnation and then a slow but steady decline mainly due to the reasons that Dozy brings up. I know there are a lot of folks who don't understand/fully believe the theology but who are JWs because all their friends and family are and to leave would mean to give them all up. The price is very high to leave.

  Now, if something big happened and family groups decided to leave together, then it could come crashing down very quickly. I just don't seem them doing anything to upset the apple cart.
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  23

  The Miracle of Prayer - Samuel Herd, Governing Body Member

  by Kosonen in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i found his talk at http://www.jwforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1704.

  here is a part of his talk.

  is he indicating that we should pray for gb so that jehovah god would open their eyes?.

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  Doubting Bro

  Its this sort of "logic" that pisses me off to no end. Why on earth would a "God of truth" direct that his channel of communication on earth provide incorrect information leading to wrecked lives only to finally relent when enough people begged him to? And, why were these sisters questioning the GB? Weren't they sinning? What exactly is Herd's point?

  The mental gymnastics is takes to believe that the WTS is Gods channel given their history is exhausting.
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  11

  Comments you will NOT hear at the Congregation Bible Study Week Starting March 16

  by LUKEWARM in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here is this weeks lesson - your comments please.... .

  ***lvchap.2pp.19-24how canyoumaintainagoodconscience?***.

  whyconsidertheconsciencesofothers?.

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  Doubting Bro

  I'm always surprised by the amount of nerve it takes for the WTS writers to write some of this stuff. To the average JW, conscience matters are things that the WTS doesn't want you to do but won't DF you over. As a matter of fact, anytime they move something (like organ transplants, blood "fractions") from DFing to conscience matters, its interpreteted by the rank & file as being "ok now".

  Unlike the Mosaic Law, "the law of the Christ" invites its adherents to live more by conscience and principle than by written rules. (Galatians 6:2) Jehovah thus entrusts Christians with extraordinary freedom. However, his Word reminds us never to use that freedom as "a blind for badness." (1 Peter 2:16)

  This is the funniest statement of the whole section. The written rules put out by the WTS are just as bad as the written rules put out by the Jewish leaders. If you think that's hyperbole, then read the brochure on appropriate dress and grooming for visiting Bethel. Yes, God would be very offended if you don't wear a suit to a book publishing factory!
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  57

  Big Love - temple scene and Barb's excommunication

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  who saw big love last night?.

  ...and here i thought jws were fucked up.... the whole temple thing was just surreal.

  i've always liked barber's adagio, but that music made it even creepier.... jws got nuthin on their temples and ceremonies.... jws are cult lite compared to that shit.... but.... the disciplinary meeting that barb went to with the elders...how deja vu was that?

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  Doubting Bro

  alamb - Thanks for the clarification on shunning. It seemed like Barb was really focused on being cast into darkness more than she was being separated from family.
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  57

  Big Love - temple scene and Barb's excommunication

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  who saw big love last night?.

  ...and here i thought jws were fucked up.... the whole temple thing was just surreal.

  i've always liked barber's adagio, but that music made it even creepier.... jws got nuthin on their temples and ceremonies.... jws are cult lite compared to that shit.... but.... the disciplinary meeting that barb went to with the elders...how deja vu was that?

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  Doubting Bro

  Hang on sport (humble). First, Big Love is dealing with Mormons, not JWs. However, as has been discussed numerous times, there are similarities. Certainly the excommunication/disfellowshipping practice is similar. Being cut off forever from family is exactly the same. The only difference that I've noted is the everlasting cutting off is also in the afterlife (heaven) with the one being cut off cast into eternal darkness as opposed to the JW view of not being resurrected in paradise on earth. The net result is the same.

  Secondly, I found the scene moving in that it was very similar to a judicial committee meeting. BTW - I'm still active and have set on the other side of the table from Barb many times. The question about a recording device is standard. I've never seen bags removed but in a high profile case such as the one depicted, I could see that happening. Also, I think there were 5 leaders there as opposed to the standard JC of 3. Again, in high profile cases, JCs don't have to be limited to 3 (see the Flock book for details). Finally, Barb was able to bring a witness to take notes. This is NOT allowed unless the person facing the JC is a minor, then the parent is allowed to sit in, according to the rules. I've heard cases of elders not following the rules regarding this.

  The anxiety that the character showed is dead on. She was given a chance to repent which she said no to. She knew the axe was going to fall which of course it did. But, she did what she tought was right despite the consequences. Not saying I'm agreeing with her stance, just that at least she followed her convictions as did the committee however misguided both are.

  Honestly, I felt deep shame in having ever participated in JCs. To watch the pain and to think about the pain others have gone through was tough. My heart goes out to all who have had to endure this type of treatment.

  Edited - FM am I correct about shunning on the Mormon side?
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  13

  E'noch - What happened?

  by elder-schmelder in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  bible story book:.

  one day jehovah god had e noch tell the people something they did not want to hear.

  it was this: god is someday going to destroy all the bad people.

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  Doubting Bro

  Marking for later, love it.
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  19

  Nephilim . Please educate me the best ya can.

  by lurk3r in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sigh.

  i cannot believe how much the society fudges some thing.

  it's starting to get me more than i thought it would.

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  Doubting Bro

  Marking this for future reading.

  Thanks Leolaia - this is great stuff.
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  17

  The mancession.

  by BurnTheShips in

  1. social
  2. current

  according to friday's bls report (table a-1, household data), the u.s. economy has lost 4.464 million jobs since dec. 2007. further analysis shows that 78% of the job losses (3.483 million) were jobs held by males, and 22% of the jobs lost (981,000) were jobs held by females (see top chart above).

  of the 351,000 decline in february employment (household data), 90% of the job losses were male jobs (315,000), compared to a 37,000 job loss for females (10% of total).. .

  further, the february unemployment rate for men was 8.8% vs. 7.3% for women, as the 1.5% male-female gap narrowed just slightly from the all-time historical record male-female jobless rate gap of 1.6% in january.

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  Doubting Bro

  That was funny. Just goes to show that you can use statistics to make any point you want.

  BTW, my wife works WAY harder than I ever have.
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  17

  Another JW Elder Claiming Clergy Privilage in Court Case

  by jamiebowers in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jws brag that they have no clergy, yet this elder is claiming clergy privilege in a murder case:.

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  http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/pe_news_local_s_clergy09.3c06480.html.

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  Doubting Bro

  Bluesbrother - thanks for the quotes. Interesting how they really used to highlight this lack of "clergy" but how that particular wording has sort of disappeared from their material. Probably because they want the flexibility to use penitent-clergy privilege.

  Sir82 - I wasn't really thinking about the CO/DOs but you're right, they are paid. Local elders, obviously are strictly volunteer. Also, your point about the sheparding calls is dead on. Why on earth would he go alone?

  If he went alone, wouldn't privilege hold? Or would the fact that the elder was speaking to both husband and wife negate privilege? If he followed the rules and went with another elder (which in a situation with obvious volitility you would think he naturally would want to do), then this judge has already ruled that privilege is thrown out.

  Clearly, the WTS legal department is involved here and wants to avoid at all costs the elder having to testify to protect their own assets. If Sir82s senario is close to what happened, I could see the WTS having some liability for pastorial malpractice.
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  17

  Another JW Elder Claiming Clergy Privilage in Court Case

  by jamiebowers in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  jws brag that they have no clergy, yet this elder is claiming clergy privilege in a murder case:.

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  http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/pe_news_local_s_clergy09.3c06480.html.

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  Doubting Bro

  They do it when it suits their interests . For several years, I was on a Patient Visitation Group that was assigned to visit sick JWs in a particular hospital. Each week, a different person was assigned to go to the hospital and see if there was anyone who said they were a JW and wanted to be visited by a minister. Actually, this was a Catholic hospital and the father that was over ministerial affairs (or whatever they called the office that coordinated ministerial visits) was a super nice guy. Only elders were permitted to be part of the PVGs because from a legal point of view, they are JW clergy.

  I was given a card that identified me as approved clergy and a clergy parking pass. Of course, I didn't use the pass because it made me feel strange to get perferred parking. But, I still have the card and pass!

  My point is that to say JWs don't have clergy is incorrect. To say they don't have a PAID clergy is probably correct and that's how I seen most JWs refer to the elders/COs/DOs in talks. It would be interesting to see some WT quotes and see if those refer to just clergy or paid clergy.